Classic Forums

Graal Classic => Guilds => Topic started by: Kevin on September 11, 2012, 05:13:19 PM

Title: Guild System
Post by: Kevin on September 11, 2012, 05:13:19 PM
Classic is looking to adopt a guild system that will fill a unique purpose with many extra features available generally not found within the global guild structure. Right now in the planning phase we are looking to collect critiques and suggestions to make sure the guild system is comprehensive and delivers features players would like to see most. I'll try to summarize key points of the current ideas below.


These are a few ideas currently kicking around that can be expanded upon greatly based on player feedback, along with new ideas entirely that may not have been thought of. Have at it!
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Skyzer on September 12, 2012, 03:36:02 PM
I agree with global guild stuff, except for "import global guild data." I don't think that global guilds should be local if a majority of players in that guild do not play the server or if the guild is largely inactive. Imagine if unixmad logged on, made VIP a local guild, and asked for the global guild data to be imported. I also think that guilds should have a limited amount of members.

I like the idea of prestige or points. One idea I have for using prestige is to purchase member slots; increasing the maximum amount of members. Also, having enough prestige could allow the guild to create or purchase a guild house.

I don't like the idea of multi-guilding with local guilds. If you guys absolutely insist upon it, it may be a good idea to limit the amount of guilds a player can join.

I do not see how event wins fit in with guilds. Guild tags are removed from single player events and tags are generic in team events.

Also, since this wasn't addressed; there is an alliance system already working. Staff guilds currently use it. What is the plan for alliances?
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Thor on September 12, 2012, 03:38:03 PM
Also, since this wasn't addressed; there is an alliance system already working. Staff guilds currently use it. What is the plan for alliances?

It would be possible to do, but it shouldn't be assumed there is a plan for it.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Skyzer on September 12, 2012, 03:47:54 PM
Another thing, if there is a limit to the members a guild can have, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not let guilds make clones.

Example: Ventrue, Ventrue Vampires, VV, The Coven, Ventrue2
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Kevin on September 12, 2012, 04:14:30 PM
I agree with global guild stuff, except for "import global guild data." I don't think that global guilds should be local if a majority of players in that guild do not play the server or if the guild is largely inactive. Imagine if unixmad logged on, made VIP a local guild, and asked for the global guild data to be imported. I also think that guilds should have a limited amount of members.


The import the way I see it happening would happen on a per player basis once they try to put on a global tag that has been registered by their leader on Classic. A global guild would probably also not have the names/accounts/tags stored locally nor access to the local rights system since that sort of behavior is best left to the online panel for a global guild. The only interaction from global guild would be tracking their statistics in PKing/Sparring/Events.

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I like the idea of prestige or points. One idea I have for using prestige is to purchase member slots; increasing the maximum amount of members. Also, having enough prestige could allow the guild to create or purchase a guild house.

I don't know if the points would be spent as a currency but this is probably a solid idea to insure that a guild is relevant before they can upload a guild house in the middle of the (very limited) GMAP. This sort of specific falls out of my domain but I think making sure a guild reaches a certain prestige point is probably as good a litmus as any for when they can have their guild house.


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I don't like the idea of multi-guilding with local guilds. If you guys absolutely insist upon it, it may be a good idea to limit the amount of guilds a player can join.

My hope is that by forcing players to commit to a guild to earn their prestige points for, and making the commitment to begin earning them points a serious one like reaching 50-100 player kills, participating in 20 events or 40 spars (these are all made up numbers subject to revision) players will build a strong loyalty to a certain guild, while not disqualifying people from messing around during a Sunday football game with an "Aaron Rodgers Fan Club" tag.

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I do not see how event wins fit in with guilds. Guild tags are removed from single player events and tags are generic in team events.

The idea here is whatever prestige guild a player has selected will get 1 win per player win, so stats might see a minor bit of inflation since it wouldn't directly be guild vs guild. This can also be excluded entirely and lead to actual guild specific events in the future, like guild CTF tournaments, spar tournaments, etc. The idea with the stat tracking is to remain highly flexible so that data can remain highly readable and comparable, down to how many CTF Sumo's one guild may have won/lost compared to another.

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Also, since this wasn't addressed; there is an alliance system already working. Staff guilds currently use it. What is the plan for alliances?

Right now I have a "Diplomacy" system penciled into the guilds SQL table where guilds will be stored and this is actually a great area to get in depth in before I finalize any data structures. Graal the Adventure's HD has an ally system (believe it or not default does as well now) that I think can reasonably be taken advantage of. Another thing I think would be really awesome is having allied actions contribute to allied guilds in some cases at a reduced rate, while possibly also adding multipliers for taking actions against hostile guilds (E.G: X player in US kills Y player in Ventrue on the overworld - they are given 1.5 of the points they would normally receive for that sort of action).

Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Minoc on September 12, 2012, 04:31:03 PM
I have no problem with local guilds, as long as global guilds and their members can be imported.

I do however strongly oppose tying guildhouses to points obtained in competitive circumstances.
I think guildhouses should be treated more or less the same as playerhouses.

Also, do remember that some guilds might not want to be competitive.
More-social guilds have a right to exist, and they shouldn't be discriminated against.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Kevin on September 12, 2012, 04:40:34 PM
I have no problem with local guilds, as long as global guilds and their members can be imported.

I do however strongly oppose tying guildhouses to points obtained in competitive circumstances.
I think guildhouses should be treated more or less the same as playerhouses.

Also, do remember that some guilds might not want to be competitive.
More-social guilds have a right to exist, and they shouldn't be discriminated against.

I think it'd be reasonable to make some sort of system in which social guilds remain rewarded rather than competitive methods being the only way to earn points. Maybe some sort of tag time -> point conversion?
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Novagraf on September 12, 2012, 04:41:16 PM
I like the ideas put forward, but what would be the Requirements to create a local guild?
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Kevin on September 12, 2012, 04:45:18 PM
I like the ideas put forward, but what would be the Requirements to create a local guild?

The only one I'm aware of at the moment is Gold Subscription, though I'm not sure if Thor will go back to the PWA/Stefan to try to have that changed.

Beyond that I guess it could be 5-10 members signing a charter to create it.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Minoc on September 12, 2012, 04:46:54 PM
I have no problem with local guilds, as long as global guilds and their members can be imported.

I do however strongly oppose tying guildhouses to points obtained in competitive circumstances.
I think guildhouses should be treated more or less the same as playerhouses.

Also, do remember that some guilds might not want to be competitive.
More-social guilds have a right to exist, and they shouldn't be discriminated against.

I think it'd be reasonable to make some sort of system in which social guilds remain rewarded rather than competitive methods being the only way to earn points. Maybe some sort of tag time -> point conversion?

It all depends on the purpose of these points, maybe they shouldn't gain points at all.
But in any case, as I've said, I strongly oppose tying them to guildhouses.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Kevin on September 12, 2012, 04:56:11 PM
To meet halfway would having a requirement that X players consider their guild a prestige guild seem reasonable to you to have a guild house? That way there aren't a billion similar guildhouses seeing no activity, but then guilds can obtain a guild house so long as their guild is reasonably serious.

Then additional perks could fall in the realm of some minor guild house upgrades along with other content on the server, like one of the warp jewel statues in their guild house.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Minoc on September 12, 2012, 05:11:27 PM
To meet halfway would having a requirement that X players consider their guild a prestige guild seem reasonable to you to have a guild house? That way there aren't a billion similar guildhouses seeing no activity, but then guilds can obtain a guild house so long as their guild is reasonably serious.

Then additional perks could fall in the realm of some minor guild house upgrades along with other content on the server, like one of the warp jewel statues in their guild house.

I believe a guild's eligibility of a guildhouse should be considered on individual basis by Thor or his delegation. There could be a set submission procedure.
Why would guildhouses be similar to one another? Since they're manually constructed, they tend to be quite different.
I think the level of activity of a guild in its guildhouse is less of a concern (and guild activity is highly dynamic), since guildhouses could be of use to the rest of the players (just like the JF house and Angel Clan).
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Skyzer on September 12, 2012, 05:19:19 PM
We don't have a plan for player houses so let's not talk about guild houses until then.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Novagraf on September 12, 2012, 05:21:03 PM
Another Idea, to combat the "limited" GMAP, have an area that leads to another, guildhouses are put there, like where the info kiosk is now, used to be an underground tunnel, something to that effect... Leads to like a Guild Island area, idk just something I thought about for a bit
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Minoc on September 12, 2012, 05:23:27 PM
Another Idea, to combat the "limited" GMAP, have an area that leads to another, guildhouses are put there, like where the info kiosk is now, used to be an underground tunnel, something to that effect... Leads to like a Guild Island area, idk just something I thought about for a bit

You're talking about something like the old Big City.
I think new playerhouses and guildshouses should be scattered around the overworld (which I assume will eventually increase in size), before being directed to a dedicated location.

By the way, I also don't think every guildhouse should be an actual house.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Thor on September 12, 2012, 05:29:48 PM
I think new playerhouses and guildshouses should be scattered around the overworld (which I assume will eventually increase in size), before being directed to a dedicated location.

I agree with this, though at this time we ofcourse don't have alternative areas of the overworld, and no framework or method as to how guild/player houses should be implemented.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: lavaman on September 12, 2012, 07:30:21 PM
I remember back on old classic there was some sort of warp building that had you dial in a number
and it would take you to what I assumed were player made levels.

There would be a system like this,
all guilds no matter how big/small/failing/successful they are would be allowed to have 1 and only 1 warp to their guild house.

Then there would be various empty guild houses build all over the place.
Two or Three times a year there would be a large multi-event contest that takes place over the course of a couple days.
At the end there will be an overall ranking of how well all the guilds did.
Then the guilds would pick which guild house they wanted in order of what rank they came in.
The link in the warp house would be moved to the guilds chosen guild house.

The contest would have staple events that are done every contest and a couple rotational ones.
The events would be stuff like...
tag team spars, chat LMS, archery, bombing, tag idling SD, some sort of race that requires teamwork to progress in it, ect...

Most of them would require very high cooperation,
for example in the FFA event where each guild would sent 4 players in a rather small room with every other 4 players each guild sent;
you would be able to hit your own guild members so you would have to synchronize yourself with your guild mates so you don't end up hitting them.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Skyzer on September 12, 2012, 07:36:23 PM
No.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Kevin on September 12, 2012, 07:43:22 PM
oh lordie lord
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: TatsumiDarkblade on September 13, 2012, 11:01:41 AM
I like the idea of players being able to adventure and come across the scattered player houses and guild houses. Its more natural. That is of course when its eventually expanded.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Nello on September 13, 2012, 03:27:25 PM
so for guild points. perhaps their can be a shop that sells guild related stock items.

this idea has been tossed around before. guild only hats, shields.

another idea based on this concept would be guild banners that would attach to the player, sitting on their back perhaps. the structure of the banner "the pole, the fabric part. would be stock. but in the middle would sit that guilds insignia/symbol.

and i know it's a bit silly to talk about guild houses before playerhouses are even being talked about.

but what about it would require not only points to buy a guildhouse spot, but points per room, per furniture. levels themselves could be player created. whereas furniture could be stock.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Dante Darkmane on September 14, 2012, 08:40:35 AM
All great ideas. Honestly, the local guild system is what I have been most excited for. I feel the overall guild system has been lacking in graal and there is no real competition. Would be nice to see something better than "Who can slash teh flag teh best" Would be interesting to see certain guild-only events. Allstar spar and allstar sumo could have a counterpart Guild Spar and Guild Sumo, though it may take a little more thought to prepare
Title: Design Document v2
Post by: Kevin on September 15, 2012, 01:46:57 AM
After looking through suggestions here and through PM I've modified the design to some of the structures a deal in a way I think most people will agree on

I'll try to convert my awfully handwritten design document into readable English here.

Guild System - use two SQL tables, one containing guild name, founding time, statistics, other one containing GuildMembers, IE account, guild, rights flag.

Stat tracking:

PKing, sparring, team events (full team must be guild), solo events, on tag time

in the case of events, only wins/losses will be tracked since stats like flags scored and returned are a bit excessive and don't give much explanation for the guild as a whole

on tag time will be extrapolated into an "activity rating" along with actual event participation, sparring, PKing etc (these are not the overall "points" concept, just a overall value rating with which to compare guilds as a whole rather than specific stat)


Guild management

Add, Kick, Edit members > local only
Edit diplomacy and information > available to global guilds
disband, view log > local administrative tools

-need to request Stefan make guild IDs as used on GraalOnline website accessible to lister so that creating URLs leading to global guild applications is easily doable


First few steps:

Track on tag time
Add PKing/sparring listening to track stats
Allow GCs to award guild wins for team events, have it automatically occur for solo wins
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Skyzer on September 15, 2012, 06:56:27 AM
It'll be like a global guild, but local. We get it. We don't care how it's scripted.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Kevin on September 15, 2012, 10:47:16 AM
there were some significant changes there like the event tracking specifically
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Skyzer on September 15, 2012, 01:25:22 PM
Well yeah, but I was talking managing the guild.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Akios on October 28, 2012, 06:06:24 PM
hi
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Skyzer on November 02, 2012, 11:32:28 AM
When was the last time Kevin touched this project?
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: PoJo on November 02, 2012, 03:10:04 PM
And can you show us where on this doll?
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Thor on November 03, 2012, 06:34:21 PM
When was the last time Kevin touched this project?
Kevin was removed and was AWOL anyway, it's not being touched at this point.
Title: Re: Guild System
Post by: Akios on November 16, 2012, 12:55:19 AM
And can you show us where on this doll?

pojo uses swagger